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View Full Version : A tie is a tie is a tie...so who wins?



carlosii
06-03-2013, 11:10 AM
there were two shooters in the super seniors who shot the same score with the same number of 12's...did they have a shoot down to determine who finished second and who finished third?

bhtr3d
06-03-2013, 02:09 PM
there were two shooters in the super seniors who shot the same score with the same number of 12's...did they have a shoot down to determine who finished second and who finished third?

No, that would be a tie for 2nd

carlosii
06-03-2013, 02:38 PM
so they both are credited with a second place finish and split the money that would go to second and third?

Elkhunter
06-03-2013, 07:50 PM
What about amateur shooters that receive contingency payouts from their sponsors, i.e. Bowtech is paying $650 for 1st, $450 for 2nd, and $275 for 3rd in certain classes for anyone shooting a Bowtech bow, and signs up at their booth for contingency ??? Does Bowtech automatically pay for a 2nd place finish ??? Wild ascertion, but what if BOTH shooters were shooting Bowtech bows --- would they then be obligated to payout TWO 2nd place finishes instead of (1)2nd place finish, and (1)3rd place finish ??? --- Something doesn't seem right here ???

bhtr3d
06-05-2013, 03:04 AM
What about amateur shooters that receive contingency payouts from their sponsors, i.e. Bowtech is paying $650 for 1st, $450 for 2nd, and $275 for 3rd in certain classes for anyone shooting a Bowtech bow, and signs up at their booth for contingency ??? Does Bowtech automatically pay for a 2nd place finish ??? Wild ascertion, but what if BOTH shooters were shooting Bowtech bows --- would they then be obligated to payout TWO 2nd place finishes instead of (1)2nd place finish, and (1)3rd place finish ??? --- Something doesn't seem right here ???

The law of averages comes into play ...but with your for instance....going on past chances of it happening...they are both 2nd....and there is no 3rd.....next place is 4th for most of the record....

Elkhunter
06-05-2013, 11:51 AM
I would think, that for the first 3 places in the amateur classes there could at least be a "one arrow shootoff" --- closest to the center of the 12 ring to determine a given place instead of a tie where both score and twelve count are the same. The pros have their shootdown, and if there is a tie between two at the end of the shootdown, they have a "shootoff" to determine ONE specific winner, and ONE specific 2nd place. In the case of London I have read there were 1536 shooters. Of those 1536 shooters I counted ONLY 131 pros total for the Open pro, Womens Pro, and Senior Pro classes. That leaves 1405 amateurs --- With those kind of amateur numbers you would think there could be a "one arrow shootoff" to determine specific 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners. After 3rd place let there be ties without having a shootoff.

bhtr3d
06-05-2013, 12:02 PM
I would think, that for the first 3 places in the amateur classes there could at least be a "one arrow shootoff" --- closest to the center of the 12 ring to determine a given place instead of a tie where both score and twelve count are the same. The pros have their shootdown, and if there is a tie between two at the end of the shootdown, they have a "shootoff" to determine ONE specific winner, and ONE specific 2nd place. In the case of London I have read there were 1536 shooters. Of those 1536 shooters I counted ONLY 131 pros total for the Open pro, Womens Pro, and Senior Pro classes. That leaves 1405 amateurs --- With those kind of amateur numbers you would think there could be a "one arrow shootoff" to determine specific 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners. After 3rd place let there be ties without having a shootoff.

There is only a '''shoot off'' for the winner.... A quote from the famous Ricky Bobby...if you aint first your last.....So, it really doesn't matter :P.....

But, to make any changes to the rules....Send a suggestion into the office for the rules committee and they will look to change onto a upcoming year.

Elkhunter
06-05-2013, 12:27 PM
Never heard a "Ricky bobby", but will pursue a "recommended change" for next year.

SonnyThomas
06-05-2013, 02:09 PM
Just flip a coin. Well, check the coin first to make sure it does have a heads and tail ;)

carlosii
06-05-2013, 07:27 PM
livin' in Georgia and you ain't heard of Rickie Bobby??? what kinda red neck nascar fan are you???

Elkhunter
06-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Hmmmmm, well let's see now --- never thought I was a redneck --- Naw can't be --- I'm a fan a Tony Stewart though --- Still ain't never heared a "Ricky bobby", although I only been watchin Nascar fer bout 2yrs now --- I do know a bunch a "Jim Bobs", "Billy Bobs". Bobby Jims", Billy Joes", "Billy Rays" n' a few uthers. I got a redneck fer a neighbor whose been inta Nascar since the beginnin a time --- I'll hafta ask him about "Ricky bobby" ??????? !!!!!!!!!!

carlosii
06-06-2013, 01:47 AM
Elkie you gotta get out more...go down to your blockbuster video store and rent the movie, "Talladega Nights"...then you'll know all about the great Ricky Bobby.

Elkhunter
06-06-2013, 02:21 AM
Never seen that movie --- We ain't got no video store in are town --- it ain't big enough --- and if we had one, and did rent one a them DVD thingies we ain't gotta thing to stick it in to play it on are TV. Y'all ferget we from suthern Georgia, and catch snappin turtles n' rattlers n' moccasins n' gators fer are entertainment --- rent movies ??? --- y'all must think were rednecks er somethin.

I been gettin out every day shootin my bow in the back yard practicin up to fulfill "Fantasy Pick#3" !!! AND, I am actually gettin perty close to bein a "shoe in" for the Classic !!!

LDFalks
06-08-2013, 01:31 PM
This is Mike Tyrell's reply:

“In classes where a final Shoot Down is not conducted, scoring ties (including first place) will be broken by the number of bonus rings. If a 1st place tie cannot be broken by bonus rings, and if time and weather permit at that tournament, the “Closest-to-the-12” tie-break procedure will be used. Each shooter will shoot one arrow and the arrow that is closest to the center of the lower twelve ring (regardless of actual score) will receive an additional bonus ring added to their final score. If for any reason a shoot-off cannot be held, and for all other places that are tied by bonus rings, the sum of the prize money for the tied places will be divided equally between the shooters. Special rules apply to all ties for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places in classes designated for a final Shoot Down and are in the “Pro Pressure Point Shoot Down” rules section below.”

Please note that this procedure is in place and has been followed for many years (we did one in Texas for the K-50 class this year.) It is also important to note that we have had times when this couldn’t be followed due to the competitors not being available, or the weather wasn’t cooperating. With this rule already in place, and being followed, we always try to insure that each class will have a clear “champion” decided.

I know of no sponsor who would go to the trouble of worrying about whether an amateur won second or third place outright when reviewing a resume or awarding contingency. Any concerns someone has about breaking a tie for second or third place couldn’t provide an argument for any additional benefits to our competitors that could possibly outweigh the major burden of processing over 1,500 scores, determining if there are any ties (other than first place) in all of our classes, locating the competitors, conducting a tie-breaker, delaying the awards ceremony, and regenerating all the scores following an event. Remember that there are many classes with different shooting times for the same class and the likelihood of everyone being available on a timely basis would make the entire process moot to begin with.

The argument “If they do it in the Shootdown why can’t they do it for everyone?” is not recognizing that during the Shootdown all competitors are available and contingency programs definitely exist. This is a completely different situation and therefore is not even remotely appropriate to consider as a rationale for this discussion.

Mike

carlosii
06-08-2013, 08:13 PM
Thank you.